INTRO
I am so delighted today to introduce you my beautiful friend Sarah Connelly. Sarah has many hats. She is an alcohol coach with a lot of training and expertise I met Sarah in 2020 I think as part of Jolene Parks’ grey area drinking coaching. And we have since become firm friends, you know, when you meet your people, and I find in this alcohol free community, similarly to the neurodivergent community, people become close very quickly. Because you can cut through things, and we're used to sharing ourselves very vulnerably. And a lot of the time we're continuously working on ourselves and learning about ourselves on this journey to integration together. So Sarah has come today to talk about highly sensitive people. People who feel things with a greater depth, or with a great depth, and I find a lot of people who drink will relate to this. And Sarah, who, as I said, is a beautiful human being. She has so much knowledge in this area. And if you find the world overwhelming if you find when you stopped drinking, your feelings were very hard to stick with. If you feel like you can read a room when you walk into it. If you feel like you're trying to keep everybody safe all the time, including yourself. And the hustle and bustle of life is very hard on you. You might find that you're a highly sensitive or highly sensory person. I think you'll enjoy this chat over to me and Sarah!
MAIN EPISODE
Emma: Ah, I'm so excited and I just can't lose control and I think I like it. Too much? “Too much, Emma” has often been said to me, I'm just gonna put my beautiful friend Sarah. There she is. In fact, let's see what happens. Yeah.
Sarah: You’ve got me.
Emma: Yes, you might have missed me singing.
Sarah: I didn't. No, I was lucky enough to catch that moment.
Emma: I'm glad you were able to see that. This is my beautiful friend Sarah, who I'm sure most of you already know. She is divine. I love her very much. I met her when we were training together in Jolene Parks’ grey area drinking training. Sarah is extraordinary. I have certain things in my toolbox in terms of being a coach and a counsellor. And Sarah has done so many amazing things. She's got so many strings in her bow and she's also a beautiful, kind, gentle, nourishing person. So would you like to tell the people all about yourself, and you know what you do and a little bit of background.
Sarah: Well, thank you for those lovely kind words that was really, really lovely. So yeah, I met Em in the grey area drinking coaching programme and prior to that have trained in multiple styles of coaching and also counselling. Mindfulness, self compassion with Kristin Neff, I'm a bit of a study junkie like many of us coaches, I think we're all slightly addicted to personal development, and learning about different things in terms of psychology, and how to help people grow as human beings. And so that's my passion. That's what I do. I work with Thrivelist as a coach and with the alcohol free lifestyle programme, coaching people both through giving up alcohol and then what happens after that, which is becoming a greater passion in many ways of working with people on how to optimise their lives once they remove alcohol. And yes, I quit alcohol just over three years ago, it's the best thing that I've ever done for myself. And for those around me. And it's the gift that keeps on giving. Through all the highs and lows, I just love being present all of it.
Emma: Thanks for that lovely introduction. And part of the reason that I wanted to bring Sarah on here is Sarah has been on a journey of her own around the area. And I don't think it's very well known. This the concept and the condition of being a highly sensitive person. And I also have a connection, whilst potentially not a highly sensitive person, but I live with a family of neurodiverse people. And learning how to cope with how extraordinarily overwhelming the world can be sometimes has been part of my journey with the neurodiversity of my family. And I think it's really interesting to learn about how people within our community; what are the different things that they might be coping with? And I think Sarah is such an expert on this, and she's very much made it part of her coaching toolkit. And I think it's one of those things, and Sarah will talk about this more, that we don't realise how many people who are out there who might be highly sensitive and what that might mean for them in terms of the world, and what that might mean for them in terms of alcohol use, as well. So, Sarah, do you want to talk us a little bit through what a highly sensitive person is?
Sarah: Sure. So highly sensitive people were researched and discovered in the 1990s by a woman called Dr. Elaine Aaron. And she discovered a series of characteristics and traits that were obvious in a lot of her clients and in herself. And so she went on to research it, coming to the conclusion that 20% of the population fall under being highly sensitive people. And we're now evolving that into high sensory processing, because highly sensitive people experience and are a lot more aware of their external and internal environment, than are people that are non HSP. So essentially, HSPs are what we would call hyper-vigilant. Their nervous systems are highly sensitive to external input, but also internal things that are going on. And so sometimes, if this trait is not channelled and managed HSPs are more likely to experience things like high anxiety, depression, bad sleep, addictions, potentially extreme reactions to situations that normal people would deal with and really feeling oftentimes, like they're alone, that there's something wrong with them, because they can't cope. And as you mentioned, Emma it's that the world that we live in the pace the demands, the noise . It's just that we have so much input. And HSPs take on if you think about it, a normal person would take on, say, 10 cups of information a day, an HSP will take in 100. So their nervous system is on overdrive. And that can lead to all sorts of challenges physically and mentally.
Emma: Yeah, that feels so exhausting. When you talk about it. And tell me, how did you start to discover that you were a highly sensitive person? How did that come about for you?
Sarah: Well, it was I was at the stage where I was still drinking. So I didn't pay any attention. I just decided to have another glass of wine. But the way I discovered it was when I started coaching, I started to see these traits that I recognised in myself and I recognised in clients. And it reminded me to go back and look into the HSP piece. And I went back, I did the quiz. And I was really fascinated about how I ticked pretty much all the boxes of what it means to be an HSP. And I guess, to illustrate what that means, for me, when I was drinking, I would drink before I went anywhere, that was social. I had to drink before I went out because I would feel the anxiety. So I would drink before I went out. Then let's say I was going to a restaurant, I would walk into a restaurant, high anxiety because there's lots of people, the noise became overwhelming for me, bright lights, smells, because we take on so much from our environment. Not only that, I would notice the minute someone was uncomfortable. Or even if somebody didn't have a seat, you're taking all this in and trying to manage it all as well as your own emotions. So we have introvert and extrovert HSPs. I'm an introvert. So I wouldn't drink a great deal in those environments, because I was very conscious of my safety, which is another thing - we're always concerned about being safe. But when I left, I would go home and drink on my own. Yeah. To recover almost to recover. Exactly. Yeah. an extrovert HSP is more likely to be the one out all night dancing on tables. They're not as common as the normal as the introvert HSP. But 20% of HSPs are extra. It's not just introversion.
Emma: Yeah, that's fascinating.
Sarah: But noticing all of these things, and you know that it comes at any time. Like for example, if there's a ticking clock anywhere near me at night time, I can't sleep, I can hear everything. So everything has stopped. Loud noises, I like the reaction is very, very extreme to the point where my husband’s like, what's wrong? But I will have an extreme reaction to that thing. So you're basically dolled up, all your senses are dialled up. And what that means is that you're dealing with a lot more than non HSPs all day, every day. And if you don't realise that, that's what's going on for you and that you're seeing more and feeling more you can look for ways to dull the senses down which is where the alcohol comes in. And it’s about 50/50 now - 50% men and 50% women who are HSP’s.
Emma: It's so interesting, because so many of us are walking around with our whole nervous system on extreme activation than it sounds like for an HSP, that's even more. And I wonder what are the things, Sarah that how can you help somebody who feels like that and feels like alcohol is the only way to soothe themselves and it's been their friend for so long, what? What are the steps that you took to keep yourself safe and make yourself feel at home in your body and safe?
Sarah: It's an ongoing learning. For me, you know, I think the most important thing for anyone, like with any point of style of change, you've got to recognise the issue, and get familiar with it. And I started to notice that I was always in this state of survival mode. Like, like you say, so many of us are, but I was fully in survival mode. And so what I had to do was start to get really familiar with my nervous system. And work out, you know, what, that looked like being in survival mode, what was I thinking? What was I feeling in the body, most importantly, and the awareness of that gave me the skill to be able to say, “Okay, now I need to remove myself from this environment”. And I’d been doing that naturally anyway. So when I was in a restaurant, I would go to the bathroom three or four times, even if I didn't need to go to the bathroom to get some space. But now I'm more conscious about it.
The number one tool for me has been the breath. Using our breath, to soothe my nervous system. So noticing, first of all, when I'm in survival mode, or when I'm in that fight / flight mode, and using my breath to settle my nervous system and come back to a calmer place, which is not always possible, right. But the breath, thankfully, is always there. And we can always rely on it. And I think another really important part of it was accepting that this is who I am. And also looking at what the upsides are, because there are many upsides to this key.
Emma: We'd love to hear about those.
Sarah: So HSPs naturally are highly intuitive. Because we get all of this input. Like we will notice micro expressions on people's faces, we can often tell how people are feeling, we can certainly tell when people are uncomfortable. And we are at the high end, very empathic. So not only reading the physical, but also reading energy. And the more we connect with our innate abilities as HSPs, we start to feel even more on a more energetic level, which is incredibly empowering, and incredibly useful. When we're working with people. HSPs are very conscientious. So in the workplace, if you've got HSPs, they tend to be the people that hate making mistakes, and they'll always, you know, they're really diligent and committed, great listeners, they step back, and they listen, and they observe before they jump in. And extremely creative. You know, they have so many things to draw from in life. They'll feel music, you know, they'll feel deeply around stories and movies, and there's so much greater capacity to feel joy. Yeah, it's not just feeling the bad feelings, we also have a great capacity to feel the great things. And I always thought that made me a little bit weird, because I would get so excited about things, particularly in my sobriety, this was a best thing I'd ever found. And of all these other people going “what's the fuss about?” So it's feelings of all on the whole gamut, the whole range of heightened level, which means that HSPs tend to be really good counsellors, teachers, educators, those sorts of things, because they have this ability to really connect with the deepest messages and the details. So that's the sales pitch anyway,
Emma: That sounds like maybe you feel really connected to the universel? I don't mean that in a wanky way, but it sounds like it's the oneness. You know, it's like you're on when you're in the vibration of, you know, joy and everything. It's that connectivity, is that connectedness does that sound?
Sarah: Yes, absolutely, I'm sorry, I just realised my battery was running out. And that's quite a scientific part to it too. So the amygdala, which is, you know, the primitive part of the brain: fight, flight or freeze has been shown in HSPs, to be larger and more risky. But also the insurer part of the brain, which is what's known as the seat of consciousness. And that part, the insularis known as the seat of consciousness, which is the awareness of both the inner and outer worlds and the energies, and that part of us that we were we really connect as you're talking about to, you know, something maybe greater than ourselves. So it's, it's interesting that the science backs this experience up, because you know, I love science more than anything, it's so important to me.
But to know that, if and this is the big if we trust, if we can trust in this, and listen and get quiet enough to hear the gifts, and the messages and the learnings and the experience of life becomes extraordinary.
Emma: Yeah. Wow, I think the way that you talk to it, I think there will be a lot of people who listen to you talking and thinking, gosh, that sounds like my experience. When I was talking about the Faye about ADHD, and now, we're finding more and more women are getting diagnosed with ADHD in later life, because we're becoming aware of what the symptoms are. And it's like, I imagine that you're talking now about this, there'll be people saying, Wow, that sounds like me. And I'm hearing Natalie's going, I find it really difficult because people are not HSPs just don't get it. No, absolutely. Not that she expects them to accommodate her. But I found it really hard. It really is up to me to manage it. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah: It's yeah, I totally relate. No, I totally relate to that. Many HSPs talk about this as being you know, the problem and communicating a trait which, if you're not an HSP can often be seen as you're too sensitive. Get over it. Cool. Yeah. Together. What Yeah, with you. You know, many HSPs when they’re children are told, “You think too much stop overthinking. You're overanalyzing”. And so that's where we learn to try and internalise and numb and ignore, whereas, and this is the interesting part that HSPs if they are nurtured, and given understanding and encouragement, as children, thus, their capacity to go on and do amazing things is way beyond the non HSPs because, but they have to have had that not acknowledgement and nurturing. But I mean, super interesting. Sorry, I was just gonna say look, look what Nat’s achieved. You know, she has this extraordinarily creative, business and service that she's offering, which is, is incredible. So she's proof in the pudding.
Emma: Two of the cleverest ladies I know. Extraordinary and with huge capacity to do amazing things in this world. And just bring your beautiful selves and your beautiful personalities and your ability to witness what's going on around you and pick up on things and be the kind and caring people that you are, both of you such a gift to our community.
Sarah: Well, I think as well Em, it's important that like you say that about the caring aspects of HSPs because of their empathetic nature are very caring people, but that can be to their detriment, and often lose your head and say, “I'm looking after everybody else's needs” and ignoring their own. And I'm not saying that that's exclusive to HSPs. Because I think there are many people that feel that in their lives, you know, so. But certainly, with HSPs, it's a common complaint that they don't know how to look after themselves. And they spend all this time because they see so much need so much outside of themselves that needs attention that they forget to look inside.
Emma: And then I imagine burnout’s, very common?
Sarah: Very common. Very common. And panic attacks is another common experience for HSPs.
Emma: If somebody was listening to us today and thinking, “I really relate to what Sarah's saying”, what would you recommend that they do?
Sarah: It's not dissimilar to when people realise that they want to quit alcohol, or anything like that, you need to surround yourself with supporters. And you need to find your community, if you can. The thing with HSPs is once they find other HSPs, they're like, “Oh, I'm not crazy. There’s more me out there.”
There's a wonderful community called the sensitive empowerment community, run by Julie Patel. And there's a link to all of the HSP resources on my website as well as Julie's resources. And she has a community which I love being a part of where we will talk about our HSP experiences. And the other thing is, once you realise that you're perhaps an HSP is to do your research, go online, do some reading of the work by Elaine Aaron - it's fantastic. Just to give you a real understanding of what that means for you, and then the tools that you need, as an HSP.
And there's little free courses and resources. But fundamentally, as I say, my biggest tool is the breath. Using it. And I use it all day, every day, even when I'm hanging the laundry, big, long, deep breath. And, you know, really starting to spend more time on your own, if you can, and recognising that you are not designed for the world that is designed by 80% of the population. Yeah. And you have to walk your own path a lot of the time, and not bend to the pressures of social norms.
Emma: So interesting, isn't it, this whole idea of this work, the way that our world has been constructed is so harmful and dangerous. For so many of us. It's definitely time for the parts of us that make up a smaller percentage, perhaps of the population to start rewriting what's, what is Okay, and what's not okay. A lot of the things I was reading today on an Instagram post - and this might be a bit controversial - that the way that we deal with a lot of children is almost like bullying. There's this level of control that as parents we impose on children. And actually, we're teaching kids that this is the way to behave in the world. And it's like you were saying, where we reflect, and we say, “Oh, you're too sensitive”, or “suck it up” or “you get what you get”. It's all about denying people's experiences isn’t it and making their experience bad. And it's yeah, it's just such an interesting. It's such an interesting way. I think we're at a pivotal point in the world right now, where the voices of the minority groups are starting to speak up and question some of this stuff that's been indoctrinated in us for such a long time.
Sarah: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I know in the HSP community, we talk a lot about trying to encourage more HSP leaders in specific forums where things need to change. Historically HSPs because we're not, you know, we don't fit into the mold, that we often stay in the background. And how can we empower HSPs to start speaking up more, and making our unique abilities useful out in the world without overwhelming ourselves, and it's that fine balance that we need to work with. But the skills of HSPs in business are, if they're recognised, are extraordinary, we have a room of people, and you've got one person in there who is reading everything that's going on, and can see someone's not happy, we can see the presentation that ended. And really drawing on those experiences as well. Is, is becoming more and more sought after, in a way those types of people.
Emma: It's like that emotional intelligence, isn't it, you see what's happening. And you're aware, you're not just focused on yourself on what you're trying to manipulate or control the conversation to be. It's very, very interesting. Nat says: “I find being a mum, particularly difficult as an HSP. I'm so hyper aware of my kids emotions, and desperately want to fix their hurts and issues for them”. Yeah, I really feel that too, I really feel that.
Sarah: And it's hard too, to create that space, particularly if you're an empath between other people's emotions and your own. Yes. And, you know, taking them on and wanting to solve it and wanting to take the pain away. It's really hard and as a coach or a counsellor it’s really hard to create that separation, but at the same time, know that, that hyper awareness is such a great gift that you're giving your children the fact that you can see, and you do feel this is something that they will have for their entire lives, knowing that. Because ultimately, all we need to do is make sure they know they're safe, and they're loved. Anyone can do that, but HSPs, perhaps can articulate it at a deeper level.
Emma: I'm sure Nat can 100%, and I'm sure I'm sure you can as well, Sarah, it's just a beautiful gift that you bring into the world. But, you know, as special guiding people, they talk about people with anxiety back in the day. And we were talking about the hyper awareness being like a form of being in that fight or flight, but the people who are as particularly attuned to that, back in the cavemen days were like, the people who are spotting and looking out for danger and keeping everybody safe. And they had such a really important role in understanding what was going on within the group and understanding what's going on outside of the group. And, like you say, in business, I imagine that that's something like that heightened level is really useful.
Sarah: Yeah, Em you've just touched on a really important point, because HSPs have been around since the dawn of time. And there's a reason why species survive. And yes, we have kept people safe and famous HSPs are like Emerson, and Einstein, and some of the greatest thinkers were around for a reason. And we are there to be, you know, the guides and look at the people that are vigilant of danger, that are there to offer creative solutions and different ways of looking at the world, and really tapping into what human beings need, and strive for a fundamental level, which is to be loved and be happy. It doesn't get any more complicated than that. But we've gotten so far away from that in society, and everybody's looking outside of themselves for the answers, and I don't mean to make it sound like HSPs are that different to non-HSP’s but I think it's just a heightened experience and ability to connect to that really deep level of emotion and the feeling and understanding of the human condition? Because we live it in high definition.
Emma: Yes, yes. We were talking about that before, me and Sarah, this concept of being in high definition, and how overwhelming that can be when you first start not numbing yourself. It takes a while to get used to, I imagine.
Sarah: Well, yeah, especially when we've been drinking. And I guess we should touch briefly on that, because I know we're nearly out of time. But yes, as an HSP and a highly sensitive person, when you consume alcohol, caffeine, medication, anything that's stuck state altering, generally speaking, we have a much higher response rate. So for example, I'm really sensitive to medications and coffee. So when we drink alcohol, our experience of pleasure is heightened. Because not only do we feel bad things more badly, but we also feel good things in a better way. So our experience with alcohol, we get the dopamine lift, but we also get the anxiety starting to drift away. And so it's this moment, yes. It's like, finally, I don't feel stressed and anxious. Finally, my mind is quiet. And so my suggestion, and there's not been any research to prove this. But my suggestion is that HSPs may have a stronger propensity to become addicted to substance and turns to substance. Because we are so hyper vigilant we’re so highly active, that we get a really big hit. And we also lose, we go into low definition, or blurry. And, for a while that noise switches off.
Emma: I think it sounds like it makes total sense to me. And so many people that I speak to around drinking, that's the reason they drink is to take away that constant anxiety. And I was listening to this fantastic podcast on autism, and they were talking about how a lot of autistic people get into drinking and drugs for exactly same reason, because of that sensory, you know, it takes away you know, having all the noise and all that, you know, experience of the world, it just calms and makes it one a little bit less intense for a while.
Sarah: And especially I think, for mums as well, you know, when they're at home, and to me when I had little children, it was my worst nightmare. The noise. And you can't go and have time in a room. Instead, I chose a bottle of Sauvignon Blanc. That experience was Intense. Intense for anyone but when you can’t escape, the alcohol provides a really good short term fix. So I know a lot of my clients are HSPs. And learning how to regulate the nervous system, as you and I both know, whether you're HSP or not, is huge. Because we drink to change how we feel and if we can get ourselves to that lovely, calm state more regularly than the urges tend to be less intense.
Emma: Yeah. Thank you so much, my dear friend, thank you for giving up your time and coming and spending this half an hour with me and our lovely community. Sarah is amazing. She's an amazing coach. I recommend her so much because she's my great friend and she's often coaching me through things so I know what a font of wisdom she is - she always has a new way to think about something that I haven't thought of, or a new approach. She’s a very cool, calm and very kind person. And Sarah, do you want to talk a little bit about your business and what you do and what you offer people and where they can find you?
Sarah: Sure, thanks, Emma, and thanks for your lovely kind words. It's totally reciprocated. I'm lucky enough to know Emma and have her in my life as a friend and a colleague, and somebody that I can go to. So that's one of the beautiful things about this community is meeting amazing, inspiring people. So thank you. Yes, I'm at Sarahconnolly.com.au. And I offer one-on-one coaching. And we'll be expanding into group work next year, but for now, it's just one on one and the group coaching that I do with Thrivalist alcohol free lifestyle.
Emma: Thank you my darling, thank you so much. Take I'll share your deets and it's been just lovely to have you.
