INTRO: In this episode, you're going to meet one of my very favourite people in the whole world, Ellie Crowe. Ellie is a this naked mind grey area drinking coach. Like myself, Ellie and I stopped drinking around the same time in 2019/2020. And we met as part of the January 2020 Live Alcohol experiment. And we've become firm friends even though we live on opposite sides of the globe. And the reason I wanted to bring Ellie on to talk is because she and I have a lot of shared connection over the concept of self and the idea that we are suffering from a disconnection to self, to our real self, to our inner self. We talk a bit about childhood trauma and we talk a bit about drinking to take away our pain, to relax us, to numb us, and to allow us to escape from the busyness. The negative self-talk, the deeply internalised wounded soul. And we talk about how hard motherhood can be and the impact of lack of sleep and hormonal challenges as well. I think you guys are going to like this episode. I think you'll enjoy Ellie as much as I do. She's a very relatable mum of three young kids living in England, in Cambridge, and she runs an amazing podcast called Present and Sober, which we'll talk about during the podcast episode. So over to my birthday twin and soul sister, Ellie Crowe.
Emma 00:02:33
If you're a woman in midlife whose intuition is telling you that giving booze the elbow might be the next right move, then Midlife AF is the podcast for you. Join counsellor Psychotherapist, this naked mind and grey area drinking alcohol coach Emma Gilmore for a weekly natter about parenting, quirky, teens, menopause, relationships, and navigating this thing called midlife alcohol free. If you're feeling that life could be so much more, that you're sick and tired of doing all the things for everyone else, if your intuition is waving her arms, manically at you, saying it could all be so much easier if we didn't have to keep drinking, come with me. Together we'll find our group without booze.
Ellie 00:03:24
Oh, how are you, my love?
Emma 00:03:25
I am good, actually. I'm a little bit wide awake for this time of night and a little bit I don't know how this evening is going to pan out later. I got a bit excited about seeing you.
Ellie 00:03:42
Yes, I know. Me too. Me too. It's a nice way to start my day.
Emma 00:03:48
So this is my beautiful friend Ellie and I love her very much. And she is a cancer like me. That's all you need to know. She's a crabby. She's a little crab. And we met three years ago, just over three years ago at the live alcohol experiment 2020. But we didn't really know each other very well. But we've both been alcohol free since - you were just before, right? And I was just after.
Ellie 00:04:26
Yeah. So I discovered this naked mind in the beginning of December. I kind of stopped drinking straight away because I was so enraged when I discovered how alcohol doesn't do what it says, and then chose to mindfully drink a couple of times around Christmas, which was really interesting. And went into the alcoholic experiment and got what an experience that was.
Emma 00:04:53
Wasn't it just? Can you believe that three years ago? And you're coaching in it now, right?
Ellie 00:05:08
Yes, I think I've coached every January since, which has just been honestly, that was my dream was to be able to go back and coach in the very program where I found freedom. When I got to do that together. Was that the first time? The first time we coached in it. And it was just amazing. And then I coached it last year and coaching in it now and yeah, the same as it ever was in terms of just high energy. Just so many insights that people are having and it's just wonderful. Come back, they've done it before and then fresh new people. Fresh new blood.
Emma 00:05:57
New blood.
Ellie 00:06:01
As you know, there's a few thousand.
Emma 00:06:03
People there, so it's a great batch, isn't it? I remember the first time I did it with you and we were like, oh, my God, there's like 2500 people.
Ellie 00:06:19
Because I was talking about anxiety and nerves and what have you. I was saying that that first time I coached in it I had, I think, probably two or three sleepless nights beforehand. And going to press that live button for the very first was the most terrifying moment knowing that there were two and a half thousand people there. And quite, almost like instantly that fear and anxiety just changes to this high octane energy, excitement wonder. It's just amazing. It really is. The point of reference in this conversation was I was talking about what I remember after we coached that experiment and we met with Annie and I remember thanking her for the opportunity and I said this is exactly the kind of anxiety inducing incident that I would have had while drinking. That's what I would have done. And she was saying, yeah, isn't it interesting how when we can choose to do that and we will take the edge off the anxiety like, we can make it more palatable, more comfortable, seemingly. But then you take the edge off the whole thing, she said. So the excitement, the ecstasy you're feeling having come to the other side of it like if you'd have taken Valium or the wine, you'd have taken the edge off that bit too. This choice that we make no longer knows. Yes, it's really, really hard to reckon with emotions and circumstances and challenges in our life. Yes, it is. But it is life and energy giving and I don't think there's any way that you can give yourself than to be present to your life, the entirety of it.
Emma 00:08:29
100%. 100%. I agree with you, my lovely. I really do. It's ups and downs and a bit messy a lot of the time, especially with children.
Ellie 00:08:43
Yeah.
Emma 00:08:48
Do you want to tell people a little bit about yourself and what you do and then we can get into some chat around stuff?
Ellie 00:08:56
Sure. Yes. After the alcohol experiment, midway through the alcohol experiment, I decided that I wanted to become a coach. I just had this desperate passion to spread the word about what I've discovered and help other moms, particularly people that would be drinking in the way that I was to try and ease the racing mind and check out. At the end of the day, I've got three young kids and a couple of businesses, and life is just really hard. Very little social support. Lots of hormonal stuff going on too. It's like fucking perfect storm. And so when I discovered that removing alcohol, I'd never even considered it a life choice. And then when I did and realised how much better I felt and that my anxiety went away, I was just compelled to be able to do anything to help anybody else, even if it was just one person to be able to help somebody else. So I trained with Annie. We trained together over that summer of 2020. And then I then went on to train with Jolie Park, who you've also trained with as well, and from there, added it to my coaching business. So initially I did a lot of one to one coaching, and now I'm doing utter more group coaching. I like to put more women's groups together, so that's what I'm in the process of doing. Groups are going to start at the beginning of February, and it's just a wonderful opportunity to get like minded women together. So this is primarily for people that have stopped drinking or have just taken a break and realise it's even better than expected to be, but have no idea how. We navigate, like, the first 100 days together. And we learn how to process our emotions. We learn how to regulate our nervous system. We do that together in a little cosy group. So that's my mainstay group coaching. I do a lot of work for this Naked Mind too, so coaching a lot of those programs. And then, as you know, the big passion is the podcast that I run with Sam.
Emma 00:11:33
It really tickled me this morning because I put my.
Ellie 00:11:37
Big head over the top of it, replacing Mr. Sam. Sam and I originally met training with Jolene Park, and then his business was the Sober Rebellion. My business was pump up the present. So the two coming together was present and sober. And so we started this podcast off about 18 months ago with no idea what was going to happen with it. And it's just been an absolute joy. We just hit half a million downloads. We're in the top two podcasts globally, which just blows my mind, and it's wonderful. And we get the feedback that we get and you'll be feeling this too, with your podcast. It doesn't matter, like, the numbers and the metrics. Yeah, that's kind of interesting. And as I say, it blows my mind. But the thing that's more important and more valuable is the feedback that you get on a daily basis from people saying how you've helped them and how you and so that's the meaningful bit. But yeah, that picture was taken the first time. So this is last summer and we'd work together. Sam and I'd worked together for over a year and we'd never met. And so he came and met me in the summer. That was the first time that we'd met. And then you've cut his head off.
Emma 00:12:53
I'm just like, it doesn't matter about him. It's all about me and my big head. Sorry, Sam, again, I was trying to find another one of you. There was one of you in Pearl and I was like, trying to get I can't move Pearl out. Sam will have to go.
Ellie 00:13:19
Yeah, Sam wants to go.
Emma 00:13:25
That's right. So you've been working for this Naked Mind. You've been sober for just over three years, you've got three kids, you're building a wonderful business. I love Ellie. She's an amazing coach and she and I have been friends since we did our training together. And we have some really great conversations. And that's one of the reasons I wanted to bring Ellie on today, was to talk about some of the things that we find interesting and some of the things that I think people who follow me in the Midlife AF podcast will find interesting as well. Because a lot of the time we're talking about something that just seems to be so common with women and drinking, and that it's so often that people pleasing suppression of self that we've done for years and years and years and years. And it's that transition from ignoring ourselves, not really being connected, being massively disconnected from ourselves to reconnecting with ourselves. And I wondered if we might talk a little bit about that. You might tell me about your story with regards to that or anything that you had to offer.
Ellie 00:14:55
Yeah, this is, I think, one of my favourite subjects because when I removed alcohol and kind of got past that initial, like, the newness of it revelation, there was kind of this big realisation of just how disconnected I was from myself. I think that can be quite affronting. And part of these small women's groups is because people do have that excitement and they do have that elation at feeling so much better without poisoning themselves. But then there is this like, well, hang on a minute, this is all I've known, and why do I feel so uncomfortable in my own skin. So it's probably, I think, the most important subject. And the journey back home, back to self, is wonderful. It's hard. Yes, it's all kinds of messy, the word you used earlier on, and it's challenging, but it's wondrous like this. That's what it's about, this coming home. We start off so connected to ourselves in utero. Imagine what it's like, that oneness is there. You don't know anything else. And then we're thrown out into this world where we then, over time, just sad. It's really sad to watch, like, bit by bit, and I see it with my kids. Begin with when they're really little and they're just all self entirely, and then they start to become sensitive to being in these human bodies and having this primal need that we have for connection and survival. And so bit by bit, we start to give ourselves away. And the thing that I was contemplating this morning was that it feels like that. I think that happens to everybody to a degree, because we're cultural beings, we live in society with others, so naturally everybody's going to have their own experience of that to a lesser or greater degree. And I think you have to feel very secure and very safe in yourself to not stray too far, if that makes sense. I think that certainly what happened in my own story is there was some childhood trauma there. And reflecting back, I can see that those things that happened to me or the things that didn't happen for me, that should have happened for me have contributed to this potentially a greater degree of separation from self. Not feeling comfortable being myself, thinking at a very deep level. And this isn't conscious necessarily, but feeling that you're not good enough, that there's something wrong with you. Certainly that would be a conscious thought at times, but it's like this insipid, very deep, like, annoying awareness. And when I think back to myself as like a five, six, seven year old, god, I could cry, like, feeling that this is the age of my kids right now. That my boy would think that there's something wrong with him, that he's less than, that he's not good enough. It breaks my heart. And that's how I felt as a kid. And as we start to try and find a way to exist and survive, we adopt responses, and typically that will be the freeze response. And then as we move into adolescence, it's no wonder then that we adopt these behaviours over drinking being one of them, to try and feel or care, to try and cope. And like, I remember I drank way underage. I was probably drinking when I was about 13 or 15. And I remember just how free I felt because I was temporarily transported away from this intense not good enoughness, of course. It doesn't last. And the experience when we're early on in our drinking careers versus towards the end is obviously very different. Again, she haven't built tolerance and so on but it strikes me that there's these contributing factors to how disconnected we are from ourselves. And so if I think from that point on, from kind of the teenagers up until the point that I had children, I just considered myself a big social drinker. And during that time, I just don't think I liked myself very much. And that feeling of not good enoughness, something being wrong with me was pervasive, and it would seep into everything. So I would have looked like on the outside to everybody else. I had a good job and I met a husband and we had a lovely relationship, lots of friends. So on the outside it all looks very what a great life she has. But on the inside I was just tearing myself apart day after day after and I don't think then I was using alcohol as a means to numb that necessarily but in the same way as when I took my first drink in my teenagers it was an effect for sure. You get that feeling or illusion of relief. So I was just completely lost in that. The best way I could describe it is it's like sleepwalking being completely disconnected from myself and from what life's really about just kind of getting by but not in a way it didn't on the outside it didn't feel like that. It felt like this is just what life is, this isn't happening at a conscious level. It's kind of the driver behind. And the thing that I think is really interesting about when we get into caregiving, whether it is with kids or whether it is with ageing parents or anybody else in our lives, I think that then does a couple of things. I think it accelerates this disconnection from self because you are so focused. You have to be so focused on who you're giving care to and inevitably, then you get further lost in like any chance I had of self discovery. I've got no time for it. Really no time. So I think that's one thing that's happening is this acceleration of it. And then the other thing that I think is happening is this painful, painful, rude awakening that comes to all of us at age juncture. So I battled on with hormonal difficulty, sleep deprivation, no social support, drinking, self-medicating to relax, to escape, and to check out at the end of the day for quite a few years. And you could say that it was successful for a period. Absolutely. There came a point where it just wasn't tolerable anymore. I was worried. I was worried about the amount that I was drinking but at the same time I was terrified of not having that. What happens if it doesn't work? So it never crossed my mind that removing alcohol was an option. So I stuck in that cycle that I think so many of us get stuck in, of trying to moderate your drinking or I need this. I can't give this up entirely because I need it. I've given it certain jobs to do.
Emma 00:24:33
Yeah. What were the jobs for you? What were the jobs they helped you with? What did it help you do?
Ellie 00:24:41
The main thing was relaxation. Under the umbrella of relaxation was escape. Like, I would get up on a morning, probably with a low level, low key hangover, having not slept the night before I breastfed. All three children ended up breastfeeding in the middle. She didn't sleep until she was three. With Daisy, it would be up multiple times a night. And anybody being through people that haven't been through it probably like, I don't think you can really appreciate it, but if you have been through any degree of it, you know how fucking debilitating it is. I woke up on a morning and god, I could cry now thinking about it, like how I used to feel every fucking morning. I would wake up and I'd be so fucking tired. Like my nervous system ragged. I'd be tired but wired. All of the things I've got to do and worrying about all the things that might happen and the things that might go wrong and spinning around that not good enoughness. I'm not a good enough parent. I'm not a good enough mom. I'm not giving them enough of my time. I'm not working my business hard enough. All of the stuff - wake up with that. Having not had - and I didn't realise this -I wasn't having proper sleep throughout the night. And then I would be waking because of the levels of stress in the body from drinking. I'd wake up and I would just lay there like, oh my god, I have to get up. And I don't want to. I physically don't feel like I can get up, but I have to. And then feeling that shitty hangover feeling that stays with you. Right, well, I'm going to have to have an earlier night tonight and I'm not going to drink and all of that. All the promises. Work your way through the day. Going to haul my ass to all these baby groups and toddler groups. I really did, but I went and I was like.
Emma 00:27:29
Oh, my God, we did that together. That's so funny.
Ellie 00:27:35
Loved it. Where's she hiding?
Emma 00:27:42
Oh, my God.
Ellie 00:27:43
Another thing we've done that's.
Emma 00:27:45
The thing.
Ellie 00:27:49
Sometimes it's fucking soul destroying. I remember sitting at like, the kids would do gymnastics and I'd go in and I'd be sitting there with all these other moms and hearing them talk about what's going on in their lives and just feeling like, I just don't fucking fit in here. And by the way, I don't mean I hate having children and I hate the experience, but there are times where it's hard and it's hard to fucking hate it sometimes when we don't realize quite innocently, we're stuck in this cycle where we're inadvertently making it worse for our worst process. For me, alcohol, it felt like it gets to the end of the day and then I'd start to get that little feeling of, like, the hangovers worn off. And so I'd be desperate to get the kids in bed because then it was like, I could have some me time. So to me, alcohol, it was really other than yoga, it was my only method of self care. And when I think like that, it makes me feel really sad. I had a really good CBT therapist at one point, and I remember going back to see him. I'd seen him initially. He'd really helped me with my anxiety and after this passage of time and I was having some hormonal difficulties and I didn't understand what was going on, and I didn't necessarily recognize it as hormonal difficulties. I just didn't feel much. And I went to him looking for help and he said, look, there's nothing wrong with you. You need some help. You need some social support. You need somebody to take your kids. You need somebody to do your ironing for you. You need a break. I can't help you with those things. And he started like, what's your self care? And I remember sitting in his office and I was just really embarrassed because I thought, well, what do I do? I was like, Can I tell him that I drink like that? That's how I look after myself. That and yoga. And I remember I used to drive to go and see him, or I would drive to go to my yoga class and on the way, I would either go and stop there's like a co-op or garage that stocks this particular wine that I liked. And I would go and buy, like, six bottles at a time, and it would be like, oh, that'll get me through the week. But it wouldn't, of course, it was probably three days.
Emma 00:30:44
Three days.
Ellie 00:30:47
Because they've already seen me once this week, I'd go somewhere else, niggling away at me. This whole thing like, you go into your yoga class and you're seeking this deep spiritual connection, then, like, any good, any benefit from that, you're washing it away in wine. It's just awful. But one of the things I wanted to mention within this because I've got a bit of a I don't know how to say this without being really quite kind of scathing, but have you ever come across a book called Hurrah For Gin?
Emma 00:31:47
Somebody bought one friend of mine, actually an apology friend, if for any reason it bought me two books just before I stopped drinking. It was the reason Mommy likes gin. Do you know that? It was the same, it was cartoony. Is that the same thing?
Ellie 00:32:04
I think it's possibly the same thing.
Emma 00:32:07
Drinks or something like that. Similar sort of thing.
Ellie 00:32:12
The reason I bring this up is because, by the way, I think the intention behind it is nothing but good. I want to say, however, when I was stuck in that place of going to sing and sign and wishing that I was dead some days, the thing that made drinking okay was everybody does this.
Emma 00:32:46
When I'm saying, like, it's okay.
Ellie 00:32:48
To hate parenting sometimes. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. But the thing that I find really insidious with this Hurrah for Gin business is that it's kind of hooking people in with the, oh, yeah, let's all commune around how parenting is really terrible at times. And I love the levity of it, by the way. I love the stick drawings of what it's like to be yes. But the problem is that it's very much linked with this message of and the solution is your drink. Let's cheer for gin.
Emma 00:34:00
Yes.
Ellie 00:34:01
At least we've got gin at the end of the day. Now, that, for me, let me off the hook. Oh, well, it's okay because everybody does it and it's fine. But the problem with giving a free pass to alcohol as a solution is we build a tolerance. It's an addictive drug. It's a highly addictive drug. It's one of the most addictive drugs. So particularly when you use it as a means of medication, self medicating, easing discomfort is probably a better way of putting it. Then you are going to develop a tolerance and need more of it more quickly to achieve the same effect. And so your dissent is faster, much faster. And whilst the intention behind Hurrah for Gin and others is probably very good and innocent, it frightens me, the impact inadvertently, I'm sure, like it's having on people, because that kept me stuck. I'm not blaming the author, but it did okay. And by the way, it is okay until it's not like I managed to get myself out of it. This whole situation is affecting millions of people on a daily basis. And it's not just the person, it's the children, it's the families, the employers. Society as a whole torture women who have very high degrees of complexity in their life and very big jobs, who are doctors and haven't got any, ask for help because they're afraid of being struck off. And they've got young children and they're struggling to be able to function. They're headed towards physical dependency on alcohol. How can we can't say that's okay? It's not okay. It destroys lives. It's just reserved for the homeless person that's on the street. And there's some that affects us all in exactly the same way.
Emma 00:36:36
And that's the other thing about it, isn't it? It's that kind of when we're all coming together under a fitting in banner of alcohol, we're almost othering as well, anyone who doesn't fit in there. Which is why so many people are like, I just want to be normal. Especially if you come from, like so many of us do, a place of lack of self worth where fitting in is so important that to not be normal or to not appear to be normal is very hard.
Emma 00:37:15
Very hard.
Emma 00:37:17
And feels like abandonment feels like rejection in the tribe.
Ellie 00:37:24
It does. We end up just feeling so lost. I knew deep down, cognitive level, but at a very deep level, I knew it wasn't okay. Actually, I also knew deep down that I wasn't okay and that I was putting up with all of those things, but I would have never been able to recognize that. And particularly in that cycle of drinking, we don't have the opportunity for mental clarity. I always when I describe drinking and yoga to people like my yoga practice, and I don't just mean my physical practice, my yoga practice in its entirety, it was severely limited because I didn't have mental clarity when I was drinking. So there was only so far that I could go. What's been really interesting these last three years is just what's opened up for me in my own spiritual journey, because I am making that radical choice to not avoid or check out certain parts of my life. When we remove alcohol, I think this is the awakening. We've got this opportunity to rediscover self. And the bit that we need to know is that that is born out of pain, that's born out of suffering. So if you feel like I did at that point, like just I don't know, I just felt just completely lost. I remember thinking like, this can't be life. This can't be it. But I didn't know what to do about it. My confidence was undermined. I was stagnating professionally, personally. I just didn't know what to do about it. The thing that's wonderful about that pain and that suffering is that it's that very thing that then frees us. So I love I was joking. Somebody with a dish. I will tell you a secret. When you know, when we did the alcohol experiment as participants. So I remember getting on the bandwagon for quit lit at the time, and there were a bunch of books that were freshly out then. So "quit like a woman" and "we are the luckiest". And then we went into coach training so I actually never got read because I was consumed with coach training. My guilty secret is that I've not actually read all of We Are the Luckiest, but I have devoured Laura McCallen's podcast..
Emma 00:40:48
I love her book. I only just read it quite recently.
Ellie 00:40:52
Have you?
Emma 00:40:55
Because all I read was this naked mind and quit like a woman and that was it. And now I'm kind of embarrassed because I haven't read more. I'm starting to buy them.
Ellie 00:41:18
I love Laura's work and felt a lot of guilt of her not having read the entirety of her book. But the point of bringing it up is that just that title alone says everything we are because of the pain. When we can get into a position where we recognize that our pain and suffering is happening for us, then something shifts and that is all to action. That is your call to this wondrous journey of heading back towards self and recognizing who and what you truly are.
Emma 00:41:58
It's a beautiful place for us to kind of probably wrap a little bit up because I think it's very true, isn't it? For me it was 100%. The rediscovery of self was like, hi, maybe how are you going? The rediscovery of self was I was like, shit, this is not the person I thought I was at all. It was like far out the last three years discovering this little six year old kid who was completely different to who I'd been from like 13 to 46. And it's almost like I'm stepping into a completely new life with this person who had created this whole different person who to be.
Ellie 00:43:25
You know, what's going on in my life right now, right? So, you know, I never would have allowed it. I couldn't foresee what was going to happen, but you know, I'm going through a separation from my husband and it's extremely sad, but it's necessary. It's necessary. Not just for me, for him, but for our children. There's something on the side and I don't regret anything. We've had a wonderful life together, whereas when I was younger I sort of believed that you had to kind of stick through because of my parents and I don't believe in that anymore. It doesn't make it any less difficult to deal with. It's very hard. But it's part of this recognition that just as you said, I'm not the same person and that person is actually how all of our ego in nature is constructed, but the constructed person before the drinking constructed person before wasn't ever like really me and it feels really bizarre to say it. So it's like I'm having this opportunity to start from scratch, to live my life, be the person, whilst I'm in this human body be the person that I truly am.
Emma 00:45:34
And it's almost like you can't not, right? Because what was the point of being our essence of self anyway if we're not going to give a shot at doing it well? It's really interesting you say that. I think it's really interesting because I think that's the journey and that's the wonderful thing about this journey is that rediscovery of self and standing next to her. Whereas before we were because we were too little to know any better. And the world is like standing next to and saying in all your whatever, I'm here.
Ellie 00:46:24
Yeah.
Emma 00:46:27
We'Re going to do this together and I'm going to stand next to you and it's going to be okay.
Ellie 00:46:33
Yeah. And a big thing that helps with that is connecting to what we truly are. So not your Emmaness or my Ellieness, but this universal, this divine consciousness. The only bit that is real. And when we can connect with that, then a lot of it just drops away. Like it, that's not real in this place. It feels like I was thinking this morning that this is probably a better way of describing it. So I've gone through some difficulties in my own human experience and my feelings and what have you. And we can get pulled down particularly with self talk and thoughtfulness. We can get stuck in cycles of energy that aren't helpful and that might look something like, oh God, the house still hasn't sold yet and I've got too many things to do, not enough time. There's just iterations of whatever the things are. And I was practising, I was in a physical yoga practice and the energy started to move and the tears just were coming and so I let them. And when I then became still at the end of it, the way that I oriented myself was to go to the part of you that is always okay. So when on the outside, when we seemingly like within this world of problems and I've got all of these things and all of these issues, there is always, always a part of you that is okay. And it's finding that part of you aligning with it being there more regularly that's the practice.
Emma 00:48:51
Fascinating, isn't it? Such an interesting journey. I'm now like, why wouldn't you want to do this? This is so cool. Like we get to give big adventure into all this stuff and finding out and finding who your people are and connecting so awesome and difficult and two things can exist together.
Ellie 00:49:14
Yes, they can. But there's limitless possibility how often we put limitations on ourselves, oh, well, I can't do that because it's all right for them. Because anything's possible. Anything is possible.
Emma 00:49:32
And that's one of the reasons that I love you as a coach and I love you as a friend. Because I know when I come to you with my bullshit about what I can't do you're just like, no. Yes. My friend Ellie, if you ever get the opportunity to work with her in any of her capacities, she's phenomenal, spiritual, clever, hellish funny and just one of the best people in the world, in my humble opinion.
Ellie 00:50:22
Thank you. I absolutely adore you as a friend and you are also a phenomenal coach and helped me enormously along the way. And it's just funny how you make these connections with people in your life that you and I haven't met yet. We were about to meet, you and I haven't met yet. Yet. You can feel so close and so connected, like a really deep level and so much thought that I was describing you to a friend of mine the other day, and I was saying, she's coming over to see me. In April. And we've got this wonderful trip to the spa planned, and I've got these lovely treatments planned, and so we're going to have these really lovely massages. And I said, and this is how much of a friend she is, this is how close we are, this is how connected we're going to go and have a colonic together as well.
Emma 00:51:32
I'm so excited about that.
Ellie 00:51:35
But this is the thing I knew you would be. A part of me that doesn't want to have this done, but then a part of me that is, like, really curious about and the fact so if I was ever going to have one in my life, it would be with you.
Emma 00:51:52
So it will be perfect. Then we can have a big, long conversation about possibly not for now, but how exactly mechanically it's going to work.
Ellie 00:52:11
Yes.
Emma 00:52:12
I am so excited because I'm going to England in April to see my mum and also to spend a couple of days at this amazing place with Ellie, which I'm so excited about. And we're having a colonoscopy together.
Ellie 00:52:25
Colonoscopy? A colonic.
Emma 00:52:27
Oh, sorry, that's more we could have that as well. That's a bit of it afterwards.
Ellie 00:52:39
Just.
Emma 00:52:40
To make sure everything's all right. It's gone offline now. It's gone silly now. I used the wrong words. My metaphorsal brain went. I'm just going to use the wrong word right now.
Ellie 00:52:58
We knew what you meant.
Emma 00:53:01
I'm glad you picked up on it.
Ellie 00:53:04
My goodness. My lovely friend Pam just joined too. She says what? Well, Pam, lovely Emma and I are going to spend a lovely few days together doing some interesting treatments. The lovely Pam is in one of my small groups and she's in Miami and one of my favourite places. There's another trip for us, so you and I could go and go and visit my friend Pam.
Emma 00:53:43
We could all have a colonoscopy, please. So, my dear friend Ellie, you said, are you leading a group in February? Do you want to tell everybody about that and where they can find you and anything else that you want to share about yourself and where to find you.
Ellie 00:54:12
Thank you.
Emma 00:54:12
Yes.
Ellie 00:54:13
So the small group, so small women's group, there's going to be possibly two of them. I usually run two because the demand is high off the back of January. So this is for you. If you have taken a break from alcohol, I usually say like 30 days ish. So it's not necessarily that you're alcohol free and I'm never going to drink again. It's more if you have become interested, want to continue on, but not sure how to do it. And you want to do it collective with other women. So, as I said earlier, it's all about learning how to regulate the nervous system, how to process emotion, going through all of the first, the first girl's night out, the first birthday, the first holiday in a lovely group of other women. So there's seven other women, or the seven women in a group. I get together and run a Coaching Call every week and then we have daily contact in between. So it's a really wonderful way to just build friendship and connection around something. This discovery that we're talking about is really the discovery of self doing that in a really safe, caring, nurturing environment. And the wonderful thing is that within these groups, they continue on as friendship groups, where after the program I've seen my ladies get together across the pond and all sorts of things, so it's just really, really lovely. So those groups are starting on the 1 February. I've not advertised them yet, so actually you guys know, even before my email list. But if you're interested in a spot in one of those groups, you can either DM me or if you head to my bio, there will be a link on there that you can click. Just book a 50 minute call with me and then I can tell you a bit more about the group and we can check out, see if it's a good fit. So that's kind of the main thing that's going on. Sam and I are going to be running another version of the Step Stop Solution that will be coming up on February 2. And for anything around that, then your best place to head is the podcast or the present. And so that's on all the main channels or Spotify, google Apple podcasts, go check us out on there. They're all about steps as well.
Emma 00:56:49
It's a great podcast. I recommend it to everybody. It's so good and the both of them are just so joyously, happy to be alcohol free and really come from that. It's not a deprivation at all, it's just bloody. Why would you not do the kind of thing, which I love so much. And they get some great guests as well. So I highly recommend both Sam and Ellie. They're just awesome people. And what's the podcast called again?
Ellie 00:57:17
The Present And Sober Podcast. And as Emma says, it's all about how we can make our lives bigger. So we talk all about alcohol, but there's so many other subjects. And we've had everybody from Annie Grace to Jolene Park have been on William Porter. Loads.
Emma 00:57:40
I was going to say, excuse me, I think you've forgotten the most.
Ellie 00:57:43
What's funny about that? You were one of our most listened to episodes. I think you were above. Were you above?
Emma 00:57:49
Did win a prize.
Ellie 00:57:51
I don't know if it was.
Emma 00:57:51
Runner up prize, but I definitely got a prize.
Ellie 00:57:54
Fine. So enough.
Emma 00:57:56
I got a badge which was very nice.
Ellie 00:57:59
Yeah, it was a wonderful episode. So, yeah, we've got a massive back catalogue of episodes going to listen to. So it's everything from how do I deal with triggers and cravings to getting close to like, what's the meaning of life? And we've got some really interesting stuff coming up, too. Some stuff around ADHD. Yeah, some really interesting guests. So, yeah, come and join us. We've got a little unity. It's a little community. I keep calling it a little community. It's a few thousand people in a group. So come and join that too. On Facebook. Yeah, it's all good. I just saw.
Emma 00:58:45
She'S in she's like, go on, let's book it.
Ellie 00:58:47
That's it. That's it. You and I go into our second.
Emma 00:59:05
On that note, sorry, I'm menopause and I just can't find the words. It's embarrassing.
Ellie 00:59:15
No, but it is what's not what it is, isn't it? At the end of the day, all of these words are made up anyway.
Emma 00:59:22
Yes, all made up, exactly. Apologies to anybody that I might have offended through the use of the incorrect words. I'm really sorry.
Ellie 00:59:33
It's not done intentionally.
Emma 00:59:36
It's been beautiful hanging out with you, my dear friends. I will have a quick natter with you when we finish. And thank you so much for coming on my podcast. It's such a privilege to be with you in this space.
Emma 00:59:51
Thank you.
Emma 00:59:52
And thanks for sharing yourself with us, precious lady.
Ellie 00:59:55
Thank you so much. And it's just what you are doing in this world is incredible, Emma. It really is. I'm so proud of you. It really is phenomenal. And you have a really as we know now, this movement is growing rapidly. And the wonderful thing about Annie's coach training is so many coaches, so much variety, everybody's so different. And you are just like, stand out like there's nobody like you, nobody like you. Nobody's doing anything like you're doing. So it's a thrill and a delight to watch you grow. And when you mentioned launching your podcast, I was just delighted. And the cover of your podcast is my favourite, I think, picture versus this one.
Emma 01:00:50
I was really like, I'm not going to do that one. And then I was just like, that's my favourite one. I've got to do it. All right, thank you so much.
