INTRODUCTION
Emma: In this episode of Midlife AF, we're going to be talking to the wonderful Jo Wise. Jo is a great friend of mine, an amazing leadership coach and a fellow swimmer, and we're going to be talking about the beauty and the joy that has come for us in making really authentic female friendships and swimming. See you in there. There.
MAIN EPISODE
Emma:
00:01:24 I brought Jo on today to talk about friendship and swimming together, because we have known each other now for two years. Yeah, two or three, something like that. And we met through swimming. In keeping with talking about things like koi dancing, ecstatic dancing and things that light me up. One of the things that's changed my life incredibly and I think most of the women that I know who do it is swimming. And I brought Jo on because not only is Jo an amazing coach and she'll tell you about herself and what she does for her business, but she's one of the inspirational women that I like to have in my life and makes my life a little bit better for her being in it. And I met her through swimming. So, Jo, would you like to introduce yourself and say what you do?
Jo:
00:02:26 Thank you, Emma. And thank you for saying all those lovely things. Sorry, your lips are moving, but I can't hear what you're saying now, so I'm just going to talk, if that's all right. And I feel the same about you. As far as I think one thing I've learned over, I think, my entire life, honestly, but particularly the last few years, is the importance of having I won't say like minded women, because I think that term is kind of thrown around a bit about these days.
I just think that connection, something has been really important to me. And having friends, I'm one of those people that always loves having people around me, but I will honestly say I've just turned 51. And over the last few years, even just a bit before, COVID I really seemed to just understand more deeply how important it is to have really smart, wonderful people around me. And that's mandatory for me now. Like, it's just one of the things that I do.
Jo:
00:03:51And that happens for me professionally with the women that I work with. Surrounding myself with really smart women that are, like you said before, inspiring, actually doing stuff, not just talking about it. And they seem to the people that I attract through my business, but also in my life, with our book club that we created and swimming and all of the other exciting stuff that we do.
Emma:
Yeah, it's been such a great experience, and I think particularly the swimming thing. I don't know about you, but my experience of swimming as a kid. I used to love swimming as a kid, and we lived in Africa, so there was plenty of swimming to be had. Not so much in the sea, mainly, but mainly in swimming pools and stuff like that.
Emma:
00:04:50 And I completely loved it. And then I think as I grew older, I just sort of really stopped. I think I went to boarding school in England. The pool was really cold. It was outside.It wasn't a pleasant experience. It was like we're in Mallory towers. It was really quite unpleasant. No rock pools, though. And then I sort of became more fearful, I think, of swimming as I got older. I was nervous about what was underneath me. I think when COVID started, one of the girls in our swimming group said to me, "Do you want to come and join us?" And I'd just started swimming with another friend of mine, and she was like, we've got this group, we go swimming. It's very chilled out. You can just come as you are. It's not competitive swimming. We're not even doing what's it called? Freestyle. We just swm.
Emma:
00:05:57 We just bob along and talk and it just had such a lovely vibe. And I just was completely hooked from the first moment I stepped in the water.
Jo:
Funny that you say that, Emma, because I've actually forgotten about this. But I was talking to someone about it recently, where I loved swimming as well. When we were kids, I was brought up in Australia and we had a pool, so we were in the pool every day. And I have super, super fair skin. So in summer I used to swim within a tracksuit and a massive hat, right? Which is ridiculous. The only way I could get in the pool was I was so fair. But then when I was in my early twenties, I had a big operation on my head, like I had a tumour in my pitiuitary gland, blah, blah, blah.
Jo:
00:06:46 But when they had that taken out, they had to take a bit of fat from my leg and I had this scar, and it just was a scar on my leg unless you were looking for it, you would never see it on my thigh, upper thigh. So what happened? So in my early twenties, I went from loving the water and everything from when I was young, I got this scar on my leg and I started telling myself these stories of how I don't like the water and I don't like swimming. And it was only years later that I realised it was because I was so self conscious about this in my mind a massive scar on my leg, which really stickily, is this tiny little line that you can hardly see. And it wasn't until I met my partner, who is a surfer, that we started surfing and I fell back in love with the beach. But then again, I'd surf down, I'd go surfing. When I say I'm a surfer, I'm not good at it. I laugh.That's my only goal with surfing. But never swim. Never swimmed like locally where we did here.
Jo:
00:07:50 And I was a bit before COVID I think I was introduced to it as well. I was learning about the benefits of cold water swimming when you start to think about these things and then it starts to be in your conversation and people start mentioning it to me and then a friend of mine said I'm swimming in the morning and I'm like, Can I come? And from the very first day I was absolutely hooked because I loved it and it was so important to me. I was swimming pretty much every single day through winter as well, like you. But twelve months ago I moved away from the water till further into the country.
Jo:
00:08:30 So we've moved up into Wood End, which is a beautiful part of the world, but even further from the water than I was before. And really when I left I went through this grieving, real deep grieving for my swimming. And I literally couldn't talk about swimming for six months because I wasn't able to talk about it without crying. So someone asked me, do you miss swimming? And I'd be like, yeah.
Jo:
00:09:00 I was talking to people, close people, about it, working through my grief, but I was just so heartbroken from losing it and I realised the reason why is because it was giving me so many things. Like it was meeting my need for connection, connection to myself, connection to other people, connection to nature. And I would do something brave, like going into the water, swimming, just swimmers in June down in Victoria, a very brave thing to do. So for me it was like I'm just doing all of these things, something brave and all before like 07:00 in the morning.
Emma:
00:09:44 That'S it and there's something amazingly grounding about it as well, isn't there? I think that was my big thing with it was like, you get in there and you're really in nature and you're really in the moment and you're in this beautiful place and some days you might be chatty and some days you might not be. And some days the waves are crazy and some days just flat as a pancake and it's just extraordinary, isn't it? It's amazing.
Jo:
00:10:25 But like you said, being in the moment, I think that's one of the things that I've tried. I used to try deliberately to meditate for years and still am still trying, but my mind's always going and so on. So with being in the water, if I'm by myself or with someone, with a group of you and so on, it seems to give you what you need. The ocean every single day. So this morning I went, I've driven down this morning and went for this morning, and it was so rough, it was like a whirlpool in there and it was just delightful.
Jo:
00:11:01 This is just what I needed today, was to shake things up a bit and to really yeah, I don't know, there's always something, but you've got to be present because the water is moving and there's so much going on.
Emma:
00:11:17 It really offered me this big opportunity as well as addressing my fears. And it was a big piece for me when I was going through a bit of meaning, making the fact that I couldn't swim sometimes. So normally there's set times of the day that we go and swim, and there's generally a big group. And I went through a whole period, I don't know if I told you this Jo. I probably did, where I was making a lot of sense about the fact that I couldn't get along at the same time as other people. And so in my brain, I was like, oh, I'm just all these stories about what it meant about me and all this stuff.
Emma:
00:11:57 And it was so interesting because it was one of those things, along with my fear of swimming alone, that I had to kind of get over. And it's been such a learning about, number one, the stories that we tell ourselves that are not true. And then, number two, sometimes when we step into that scariness of doing something new and it can become one of my interests now, I love to swim alone as much as I love to swim with other people. And yet I was terrified of it. So interesting.
Jo:
00:12:39 Yeah, see, I don't, I don't swim often by myself. But there was one morning, my first year of swimming, it was like it was the middle of winter, it was freezing cold, and I was meeting someone down at the water to go for a swim, and it was still pitch like the middle of the night, and she didn't turn up. And I remember thinking, that's interesting. What am I going to do? Am I going to go home and then I'll be disappointed with myself?
Jo:
00:13:05 Or am I going to be super brave and swim in the dark by myself. Water is pitch black, and I can't see anything. And I was like, I'm actually going to do it. And it was semi rough. But I grew up swimming, so I actually think I'm very confident in swimming.
Jo:
00:13:27 I don't necessarily have the evidence to back up how, but I've always said I'm a strong swimmer, even though necessarily I may not have evidence, but the belief there, right, that's all we need. And I swam it that morning and by myself, and I kept my brain I had to keep it completely busy. I wrote a training as I was swimming and then got back and got out and went. I was so proud of myself. And also I'll never do it again, never swim pitch black on my own.
Jo:
00:13:56 I was like, I've done the brave thing. Kick, move on. I don't have to prove that to myself again. But I enjoy it, it's definitely connected with people as well. I get out of it. And even like this morning, I turned up and swam with, I think, 90% of the people that I swam with, I'd never met before. And it doesn't matter. Like, it was people there, you can engage or not. And I think that's the thing, one of the things that when I was thinking about this conversation with you is how do I turn up to swimming and who do I turn up as? And for me, so much of what I do with work is helping other people and working with other women. And I think the swimming for me as well as the connection with others has really helped me to sort of come back to actually who I am. And it's okay to turn up swimming just as me, peel back the layers and turn up as me. And like you said, some days you laugh, some days you want to do with others. Sometimes you want to go alone. But some days we laugh, sometimes we cry. Sometimes it's just whatever I've needed. And my age at 50, I didn't imagine that I would be meeting in the last couple of years, developing this massive network of new people from all different industries and areas of life and experiences and having this deep, deep connection which is phenomenal.
Jo:
00:15:40 I personally have thought about you making friends and so on through your younger years and you lose a few on the way because you grow out of them or something. But to have this massive group of women that you can talk to about anything, anytime, everything from being able to talk openly about menopause, for example, I can't believe in our greater society how uncomfortable people get. When you mention I'm in menopause and people are like, I've had people say, oh, we don't need, or you're oversharing. I'm like, what do you mean? And to be around people, you can talk openly about the real stuff that's actually going on for me at the time. It's given me so much.
Emma:
00:16:33 There's something really strange about the group that we have, and it's so beautiful. I think it's co created by the people who started it, but you jump into the sea one day with somebody and you might not know them from Adam, and yet by the time you've come back and often people reveal these beautiful things about themselves and these amazing pieces of insight. I went on this swim with a lady, and we were talking about my kid being trans, and I would never for a million years have thought that this person would have so much to offer me, and she did. And I came away, and I was like, wow, you've actually really help.
Jo:
00:17:22 Yes, it is. Do you know Brooke? Yes, I've done a course with Brooke. Hustle and heart with Brooke.
Emma:
00:17:34 There we go. See? You've got to come swimming with us, Brooke. Absolutely. That people can just amaze you with their insight. You find that if you again, it's like stepping into Never. Where Brit Brook you don't live. Our way, do you? You're in Sydney. That's right, I think.
Jo:
00:18:23 Interesting, Emma, about like I knew when I was really the first couple of years swimming and I was going into perimenopause, but I didn't know what that was, and I was exhausted all the time. I was just exhausted. And I hadn't gotten to the hot flush stage yet, but I was hot a lot of the time, and I couldn't be near my partner in bed and my libido dropped, and it was so many things going on, which now, looking back, I can go, oh, my goodness, like ten top things all happening. But I worked out what was going on and started seeing a naturopath and so on, and the amount of times that I'd be swimming with someone, and they'd be like, my God, I'm so exhausted, and this is going on. And we'd have a chat about and I'd be like, have you thought about menopause?
Jo
00:19:13 And they'd be like, oh, my goodness. And the next time I'd see them, they would have been in touch with my naturopath and they would be doing things to improve. And it's like just from one and again. I maybe never see them again, but from those individual conversations, the impact that I've had from conversations with others and that I guess others have had from me it's a phenomenal place to be in and to know that, to have a place where you can be judgement free and have conversations that are open and to know that. It's really refreshing to me now that I've moved to the country.
Jo:
00:19:52 I don't have this in the country yet. I don't have this strong group of women locally where I am. I'm meeting people and I've met some really fabulous people. But it's kind of like dating, actually going through meeting friends at an advanced age. And I think with a swimming group we did that, it was kind of like really compact because you're swimming with them every day in normal life.
Jo:
00:20:17 You kind of get to know someone over a few months and then you become friends and you go for coffee and then there's all the stages like dating, really, whereas I think in the swimming group it happens in a really compressed environment. We went deep quickly because you're in the water and you're in nature and all of that. You're being so present with each other.
Emma:
And you're in your bathers. Yeah, you're in your bathers.
Jo:
00:20:43 That's something else for a lot of women, actually being in your bathers. And we have been nude to do a couple of nudity swims as well. It's a really vulnerable space for a lot of women to do that and to turn up and pretty much strip down when you're wearing a bikini or wearing swimmers and to be able to walk to the water. And that's a really vulnerable space for some women. I think that's why we go so deep so quickly, because we've got most of our gear off, right.
Jo:
00:21:16 There's no hiding anything, is there?
Emma:
And there's something very freeing about it, isn't there? There's something sort of freeing about the fact that we're in our daggy swimmers, no one's in their fancy, like I'm on the Costa wherever. I'm trying to think no one's looking like that. Well, I think we are all looking very beautiful that part of the morning, but we may not feel it.
Jo:
00:21:45 You're rolling straight out of bed into your swimmers, into the water and there's no hiding. I think that actually when I said that, it really hit home that it's true. There's no pretending that or creating positive perception. It's just raw in your swimmers and a bit awkward and all those things. Yeah, absolutely.
Emma:
00:22:15 And especially if you end up like quite often you'll be swimming with someone you don't know very well. This will be interesting as well for people because a lot of people, because obviously Jo knows I work in the alcohol area, but often the reason why people drink is because of social anxiety. And that's another one of those things just like, yes, it can be awkward to step into some of these things, but actually awkward is okay. And that's actually quite natural for us when we're in a social situation, for us to feel a bit uncomfortable and to sort of stand in that is quite a nice piece of practice to get into as well, I think.
Jo:
00:23:20
Yeah, I also think sort of challenging our own perceptions of what it's like to be in midlife, I guess, which is what I've said with the move and everything and a lot of people have said to me, what will you do about friends or it must be hard for you not having friends. I'm like, well, I'm making friends and I'm expanding. My circle hasn't gotten smaller. It's actually expanded. Now where I used to live and now where I do live. So it's just getting bigger and bigger.
Jo:
00:23:30 But I think sometimes it's easy to fall into some sort of old beliefs or old perceptions of what we expect. 50 year old women don't go out and make new friends like, well, why the hell not? Can't we create deep? What might start with awkward conversations and awkward friendship can become something really special, like what we've created. But I think sometimes we've just got to stop. And we've talked about a couple of times around the stories in our head, but actually step back and go, do I have to be comfortable all the time? Or if you've got some beliefs around what is acceptable and what is acceptable, like just stepping back and asking ourselves, is that actually true? That as a 50 year old woman, I can't make new friends? Like, I'm making friends, I'm out there and I'm going to be doing it because I need that. So how can I create it and how can I be proactive with it?
Emma:
00:24:28 I think it's interesting and so interesting. That you have that. I so remember one story for me of our swimming group was that we went and we all met in clothes, and we had this event in clothes, and it was the weirdest thing because we'd never seen each other without swim caps on and it was really awkward. And to begin with, everyone was a bit like and I remember just saying, this is a bit weird, isn't that? I don't know who half of you are because your head is different shapes.One of those ones that once you open up and you're like, this is a bit weird. It's a bit awkward.
Emma:
00:25:17 It's kind of like we've never met each other before, even though we have it's just that we've met each other swimming, and now as soon as you kind of lie open to people, they're like, oh yeah, it's really weird, isn't it? And then you can have a laugh and then it becomes fine. It's that open, awkward vulnerability that we talk about so often in our little group that gets us away from that sort of perfection and trying to pretend to be all the things and being our real selves, our true selves with each other.
Jo:
00:26:03
I guess what you said around being okay, that it's socially awkward. If I think back to my twenty s and thirty s, any sort of socially awkward situation generally did have like there was generally booze there. I was a Contiki Tour guide for like almost ten years, so there was a little bit of booze involved there. But when I think about that and I sort of bring that forward into now. I'm like, I don't need it. I might have a drink every now and then, but it's like it's actually with the swimming, it was created a space where it's okay to turn up however you are, whatever you need on that day.
Emma:
And show your soft underbelly and be loved for it. Show your soft underbelly and be loved. And that's, I think, part of it, too. Yeah, absolutely.
Jo:
00:26:48 And really is the soft underbelly, too. That's not just a metaphor. That's real. Yeah. Most of us are, like, turning up in a soft underbelly and showing it with the bikini.
Jo:
00:27:00 And you've got to be okay with that. Like turning up daily. For me, it's sort of fortnightly now because something I went recently, I went swimwear shopping. And for me, I've always worn bikinis for years. And that's really important to me to keep wearing bikinis because I'm proud of my body and everything.
Jo:
00:27:23 And I had this horrific experience of buying swimmers where I went into the shop and the teenagers at the counter kind of ignored me. And then so I fumbled my way in and tried on these horrendous swimmers that didn't suit me at all. And I left. And my boyfriend was like, I had you go. And I'm like, it was horrendous. I don't want to try on swimmers ever again. And then we went to another town, and he's like, Why don't you pop in? And I'm like, no, I can't deal with it today. He's like you're very brave. Why don't you give it a go?
Jo:
00:27:54 And I went in and I found some swimmers that were great. I'm really happy with them. But it was so interesting, the stories that were coming up for me at that time, because I started to say, well, maybe as a 50 year old woman, I need to be wearing a full piece now, maybe. And I was like, did I have the encouragement? My fabulous boyfriend was amazing.
Jo:
00:28:16 But it's so easy to fall into those stories. That the old stories. But it's like, no, hang on. I deserve this. This is something that's important to me. So I'm going to find it. And I got two pairs of bikinis that day. And it's just like being aware of those uncomfortable situations and sometimes with the support of others and sometimes on our own, being brave enough to do it on our own. I think that's a big learning, I reckon, for me at the moment. It's a theme that keeps coming up over and over and over.
Emma:
00:28:53 Harking back to friendship. And I know for me, when I stopped drinking, which was in 2020, I was convinced that I wouldn't have the same sort of social engagement that I had when I was drinking. Because most of my friends, their worlds revolved around alcohol. And so all of their socialising revolved around alcohol. And some of them came with me, actually. And then we changed our relationships. Our relationship came more about doing things together or just hanging out for a couple of hours or something that wasn't just solely about drinking. And then some people just kind of drifted away and that was okay as well. That's what happens in life sometimes. But then what was so lovely for me is it kind of coincided with me joining the swimming group and all these beautiful friendships blossomed with people who drink, but their whole life doesn't revolve around drinking. And they've got the same kind of values and passion for learning and passion for just sort of supporting each other and doing interesting things that I have. And so it's almost like swimming opened up this whole other world of friendship for me as well. Yeah.
Jo:
00:30:28 And for me as well. I just think that recognizing that that was a whole activity that had nothing to do with alcohol, really.
I hadn't actually connected that before. But all the friendships have got and everything now. They started from a place so often in, I think, Australian society, maybe it's bigger than that, where the first thing is to go for a drink, or whatever, a lot of time and it's so easy to fall into that habit, but it's not necessary. There's a whole different world when you're open to it to find and we've got this community that was created from just a couple of people that went, we want to become swimmers, we wanted to swim in the water. That's got nothing to do with that.
Emma:
00:31:02 That's really cool. Yeah. And I think that also adds that little bit of authenticity that we're not hiding behind anything with each other and it just opens you up a little bit more. Like you say you open yourself up more easily and then that allows you to kind of build friendships quite authentically and quite quickly as well, which is really nice too.
Jo:
00:31:38 I actually wonder if that's why I say with our swimming group that you go deep and you go fast type of thing with the friendship.It felt like that's actually it. I imagine that that's impacted it because we're real, we're not wearing many clothes like you said. We're showing our soft bellies right from the start. Whereas I guess in a lot of other relationships where you're going out to dinner and drinking and so on, there's that, I don't know. Authentic authentic straight away. Yeah. I reckon that actually this had more of an impact than I ever thought. Yeah. Very interesting.
Emma:
00:32:18 And I think particularly for people who are watching, who are wanting to be alcohol free or taking a break from alcohol, reducing their alcohol level. That was one of the things I was saying to Jo earlier. It's so interesting because you don't have to just socialise with people who don't drink at all in fact, it's so different. And I didn't realise this at all. Because all my friends were alcohol focused, or at least I thought they were. That's because I was, yeah, that's interesting. It's really interesting that you go out and you actually meet other people who that's not, they just have a glass of wine and then they move on to tea.
Emma:
00:33:03 And I probably would have been like, oh, no, I'm sorry we can't be friends before when I was drinking, because it just would have been so alien to me that that would be how people would spend their social time. And I would probably have been thinking, feeling awkward or a bit uncomfortable because I was wanting to have another drink and everyone else was having a tea.
Jo:
It'S like, that is it called I can't remember what it's called, but like a confirmation bias, basically, which is like Google. You're always going to find what you're looking for. It doesn't matter how ridiculous it is. But if you've got I mean, I do drink. We're actually not drinking at the moment. We've given up for a while. But I'm the type of drinker that will have a glass on a Friday night with Ken and that's one or two glasses, and that's it every few weeks. So you go to the doctor and they say, how much do you drink? And I say, One to two, and they go, Per night. And I'm like, no, per week or per month. And so I sort of haven't had that filter so much to look through as going, well, my friends come from this. Yes, but it's interesting how you'll always find what you're looking for, isn't it? Like, you go, what will happen to my friendships if I don't have alcohol?
Jo:
00:34:18 Well, for me, that's more like coffee. I'm a big coffee. I love my coffee every day, and I meet people for coffee, and I do that, but it's like, who am I without my coffee? There's so many people out there doing amazing things at all ages that we're going to connect when we're open to it. We're going to find them, right, and connect with them. Swimming has definitely been a great opportunity, but also with our book club, few of us, I think somebody else started it that was like, I just want to surround myself with smart women. And we said, we just created it ourselves. We're like, okay, here's another sort of more niche thing we can do. And we meet once a month and have conversations about all of this.
Jo:
00:35:10 We can create it on our own. If we don't have it in our initial environment, that's something that we can create, I guess, yeah.
Emma:
00:35:31 And you'd be surprised when you put it out there how many people are like, oh, that sounds awesome, let's do that. That's exactly what happened with us, wasn't it? I remember we were swimming around and someone was like, oh, I love Brene Brown. And we were like, yeah, I love Brene Brown too. And then we talked about it for a while, we're like, oh, maybe we should do it and we decided that we wanted to do it. We did Brene Brown's Gifts of Imperfection and we did it really slowly, chapter a month. And it was just what it took us.
Jo:
00:35:50 My son, he reads a lot and he's like, when I was at the end of the book club last year and we were like, oh, we just finished the book. And he's like, how long did it take him? Like, 13 months. He's like, I need a moment to sit down. How did it take 13 months to read a book? I'm like, no, because we went deep. We did one chapter a month and, God, it was good, wasn't it? Rather than, like, quantity, we did quality instead.
Emma:
And so we got so into it, it was like every single little bit of it was. We then went away with something to do for the month and it was just a really lovely way to get to know each other as well, I think. Did we start that in COVID? I feel like we might have done, or maybe it just afterwards.
Jo:
00:36:25 Yeah, I don't know. There was so much in and out down here in Victoria, but we finished our first year, like our first book in December last year, and that went for about 13 months. So it was last year, but also a bit of the year before. It's interesting talking about creating the community you want or sort of getting what you want. For me, moving to the country, I travel a lot for work and deliver trainings and so on, and speak on stage and stuff, and I'm living in Wood End it's amazing, but I've met some people I haven't met a lot. And I was thinking the other day, I was like, I'm thinking about creating, having a dinner for business women, like, going, well, because that's what I feel like I'd love up there, is to have some women that career focused and business focused, because I'm like, well, what do I really want? I have no people like that. How am I going to create it? So it's kind of been an idea in the back of my mind, but this conversation with you, I'm like, I think it's just moved from the back of my mind to the front of my mind to go, well, yeah, if this is something I want and if it's not already there, why don't I create it? So you've given me a goal.
Emma:
00:38:00 I was talking to a friend of mine who set up a sober meetup group and she's like, she went for months and it was just her and a cup of coffee, but she was like, Here it is. You come along and then gradually, suddenly, there's like, loads of people coming out. You've got your community, it's there. Beautiful. Yeah. Jo and I are very excited as well because we are off to the Whitsundays with the swimming group and it's my 50th birthday treat to myself. It's just not actually my 50th a little bit before and we're going and so that's going to be another amazing thing. And again, Jo and I were like, oh, let's do this thing. And it's a little bit scary and I haven't quite got it, I was like, I haven't quite got the money for this. I don't know how I'm going to make it happen, but we're going to do it because it's going to be an amazing, life changing experience and so we're off to do that as well. So that's super exciting and something I would never have done on my own because no one in my family would want to do that with me.
Jo:
00:38:55 I'm so excited. And that's one of the last few years for me, since I've probably turned 50, even more, if I'm like, what are the things I want to do? I'm going to go and do it. I've got an amazing family, they're very active, but I also need space to be able to do stuff on my own with other women.It's really important to me. And this Whitsundays, and I did a hike last year and I've got some more stuff coming out this year. I'm like, there's so much nurturing for me in those spaces where whether it's a morning swim or like, us going to the Whitsundays for a week and swimming every day, there's just so much filling up the cup for that. It lasts me months and months and it's healthy and it's good and it's a really smart choice for me. Yeah.
Emma:
00:39:52 And every time there's always you'll meet again people who are round our age doing amazing things and they're just so interesting and you get so much like, you say, love, nurturing, people who hold you up and people who make you who champion you when you're doing well and give you a cuddle when you're feeling sad. And that's what you need. And I think that is something that women's friendships, particularly at this age, come into.
Jo:
00:40:26 I think we shared it in our book club group that there's a YouTube video getting around at the moment by Jane Fonda talking about friendships with women. And I watched that and I started crying because I was like, that's. So I feel that friendship is so important to me and I will hunt you down if I think you're a potential friend and chase after you and actively do it. And it's not always comfortable, but I will do it. That thing where you're like, I was at a writers festival up in the Mastodon Rangers writers festival a few months ago and sitting next to this woman, we're chatting and we're vibing off each other and at the end I was like going through the process of like, do I ask her out? Do I ask her for coffee? Do I not? And she's like, do you want to have a coffee? I'm like, yes, I do. I really do. I was about to ask and it's just like I guess it's good. Like, we've got to step into that discomfort and go. There's always a risk with vulnerability, right? But it's so worth it on the other side because there's connections and these experiences that we've created and that we get to experience, they fill us up. We're women, right? So we do a lot of stuff. For me, it's mandatory.
Emma:
00:41:43 I agree. I think that's something I think. Hopefully that's been a really nice feeling like a really genuine conversation around midlife and friendships swimming and all the things that have come for us through that and hopefully that's helpful to other people as well. Jo, I love you. Thank you so much for coming on and talking with everybody and sharing our experience and your experience as well.
Emma:
00:42:14 I would love it if you would be kind enough to tell people about yourself and your business as well because I know there's quite a lot of coaches and people who come on and watch these lives even on replays and things like that so that you would have something wonderful to offer people. Would you be willing to share?
Jo:
Yes. Thanks. So I'm a coach and also trainer and I work with female leaders and I work with female leaders that are ready to be unapologetic and to be bold and really step into themselves. It's about building confidence and helping them speak up in the way that they want authentically. And I've talked about vulnerability a lot today. It's a lot of the conversations I'm having with my clients and primarily I work with professional women a lot, working corporate or running their own businesses. And I've got two main things that I do. I run a program called Wise and Shine, which is an online membership.
We meet a couple of times a month and have conversations like this about we've got a call coming up this week, which is about important beliefs to have in leadership. And then we also meet and have a connection call each month where we just talk about what it is that everyone's need and what are their challenges each month. So that's my one on one coaching and my Wise and Shine program. The real guts of my business. And I just love working with female leaders.
I think I really think the world will be a better place when we I'd say if, but when we have an equal number of female leaders at all levels of leadership in every organisation, every industry, government in Australia and globally. And I'm doing my part to make that happen by helping the female leaders. Sometimes it's about getting their confidence back just because some of the businesses that particularly massive organisations people are working in, can be very male dominated. So sometimes they think they're doing something wrong, but they're not. It's just that they're not seeing other examples of ethical connected, vulnerable leadership. So they're the conversations that I'm having with Jo Wise leadership.
So you can track me down on everything by that. But yeah, I get to have those real conversations with women like you that I surround myself with and within my business as well. So as far as I'm concerned, I'm really blessed because I've created this and get to have these great conversations regularly, 100%. And what beautiful work you do. I think what you're talking about is having women, and we're often talking as well in my groups around having the sensitive people, having the people who are empathetic, having the people who feel things strongly and then learning how to use that strength and that ability in a powerful way.
Emma:
00:45:20 Because so often we've been told that our femininity or our sensitivity often is, and this is for male and females, but is a weakness, but actually if it's honed, well, we couldn't do with anything better than more sensitive but also strong and powerful women in the world. So thank you.
Jo:
Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you, Emma, it's been wonderful to talk to you.
