Transcript

Emma: Hey everybody, I hope you are well. Welcome to Menopause, Meltdowns and Magic with myself and my lovely co-podcaster Tanya. So let me just invite everyone to join. There we go.

Emma: And…

Emma: You're on and then we will get in. There's Tanya. Yeah, it's like everyone's on now. There we go. Let's see who's joined us. Yay, all of us. Hello. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. How are you? Good. I'm very well, thank you very much. It's lovely to see you. Nice to see you too.

Emma: I'm a little wet from the shower. I had one of those showers where you realise… yeah, I was like I have a shower and then I kind of realised that I hadn't actually wet my hair, so I had to go back and have a second. Hi Martina, nice to see you. Welcome everybody.

Emma: So Tanya and I are going to be talking about something that's been quite big in the internet world and the neurodivergent world over the last few weeks, which is the—correct me if I get the name wrong because I'm terrible with names—Butterfrith article in what used to be called the Times Educational Supplement, now TAS Magazine, which is a very big magazine in the UK that goes out to teachers and school staff.

Emma: I’ve seen it here in Australia, and I’m sure for you, Tanya, it’s come out in NZ as well. I’ll pass it over to you in a sec, but it’s also been discussed on Naomi Fisher’s podcast—she had Uta on talking about autism in the current world. Uta was one of the original researchers who created the criteria for diagnosing autism in the 1960s.

Emma: There’s been a lot of controversy because of things said within it. So before we start, I just want to acknowledge that if you are a late-diagnosed female assigned at birth, some of what we talk about might feel a little tricky. Please look after yourself—take a break, have some water, go for a walk, and come back later if you need.

Emma: This stuff can be triggering, especially if you’ve felt dismissed during your diagnosis or your child’s diagnosis. That’s not the lens we’re coming from, but we will be talking about those experiences.

Emma: So I’ll hand over to my wonderful co-host Tanya. And if you want to join in, ask questions, or share your perspective, pop it in the chat—we’d love to talk about it. Over to you, Tanya.

Tanya: Yeah, so I probably saw the article a little bit later than you did, Emma. But I’ve read two great commentaries as well—one by Kristi Forbes and another by Helen Berrell. Both are late-diagnosed autistic people with PDA.

Tanya: What I got from the article is that she’s coming from a very small lens of what autism meant in the 1960s. I want to acknowledge the work she did—before that, parents were blamed and called “refrigerator parents.” So that work was important.

Tanya: But two things really stood out. First, she said the autism spectrum is collapsing because it’s too broad and now includes people like female assigned at birth individuals. Second, she questioned the validity of masking.

Tanya: Both of those feel incredibly dismissive to late-diagnosed people. It also creates issues because medical professionals read this, and we’ve worked so hard to expand understanding beyond the stereotypical “white boy” view of autism.

Tanya: Masking is a huge part of our experience—it can steal your personality because you spend so long trying to fit in.

Tanya: I also found it interesting that this article has come out at a time when governments are cutting support for neurodivergent people. In New Zealand, supports have been slashed. In Australia, there’s criticism around NDIS spending.

Tanya: So it feels like there’s a political element too. These kinds of articles can be used to dismiss or criticise growing awareness of neurodivergence.

Emma: Yeah, and I know it's the same in New Zealand, but it's the same in Australia as well. And it seems very interesting that the Australian then published the article, of course. There's a huge furore going on here at the moment because there's massive criticism of the government spending in the media on the NDIS, which is our disability funding scheme.

Emma: They're always looking for examples of “frivolous” spending. So there’s a lot of that going on at the moment. It’s frustrating because people who already think this way will use it to dismiss increasing awareness of neurodivergence.

Emma: For me, I think there’s definitely a political element to it that needs to be acknowledged.

Tanya: Absolutely. When our government in New Zealand came in, they slashed supports for neurodivergent people. It became so narrow that some people can’t even use it anymore.

Tanya: It’s important we acknowledge this political undercurrent.

Emma: And particularly from a female assigned at birth perspective, a lot of the burden sits with mothers. It’s understandable why this is causing distress—we already feel unseen and invalidated.

Tanya: It really feels like it’s negating a lot of the hard work we’ve done.

Emma: Exactly. It feels like we’ve taken steps forward and now people are pushing us back again.

Tanya: I also want to talk about masking. In my work with parents of children in burnout, masking plays a huge role. Some professionals understand it, but many don’t.

Tanya: When someone prominent dismisses masking, it undermines the importance of creating supportive environments.

Emma: Yeah, and I’ve seen this personally. My child experienced catastrophic autistic burnout—completely unable to function for a long time.

Emma: But on good days, they might look “fine,” which leads to dismissal. That disconnect is so harmful.

Emma: What also really got me was the idea that late-diagnosed women are just searching for a label after watching shows or social media. That has not been my experience—or anyone I know.

Tanya: Same. Many of us were previously misdiagnosed with things like anxiety or depression that didn’t fully explain our experience.

Tanya: When I finally understood my autism and ADHD, everything made sense. It helped me understand myself and my family.

Tanya: We’re not seeking support—we’re seeking understanding.

Emma: Exactly. Understanding how my brain works removed so much shame.

Tanya: And that’s why this lens is so important—it helps us realise we’re not broken.

Emma: Yes, and masking, fawning, safety responses—they’re survival strategies.

Emma: What worries me most is how dismissive this feels of the female experience. Women have historically had to mask more to survive, and diagnosis often happens later.

Emma: Ignoring that feels dangerous.

Tanya: It is dangerous, especially when you consider misdiagnosis and mental health risks.

Tanya: Social media has helped people finally recognise themselves. It’s not that more people are neurodivergent—we’re just finally being seen.

Emma: Exactly. We’ve always existed. The criteria has just expanded.

Emma: And now it feels like we’re being told to “get back in our box.”

Tanya: So what can people do to support themselves?

Emma: For me, it’s about remembering how far we’ve come. We’ve made real progress.

Emma: We can acknowledge things are hard while staying grounded in our lived experience and community.

Tanya: And remembering this is one person’s opinion. Stay connected to your truth and what works for your family.

Tanya: Seek supportive professionals and community. Protect your energy.

Emma: And take breaks. Notice when you’re triggered. Ground yourself. Practice self-compassion.

Emma: Find small things that help you feel safe again.

Tanya: Yeah, 100%.

Tanya: Are there any questions? If not, feel free to reach out later—we’re always checking messages.

Tanya: We’ll publish this as a podcast next week. If you enjoyed it, please follow and leave a review.

Tanya: What’s been magic for you this week?

Emma: I went ice skating with my youngest. I’m not very good, but I love the cold air. I did fall over quite dramatically—but a kind stranger helped me up, which was really lovely.

Tanya: That’s beautiful. For me, it’s been early morning walks—the light, the mist, the baby birds. It’s been really special.

Emma: That sounds amazing. Thank you for sharing.

Emma: Thank you everyone for listening—we’ll see you next week.

Tanya: Bye everybody.